Crusader37

Creation, Dinosaurs & The Bible

  

 

 

 

 
 
The Day - age hoax           
Is the bible clear about the age of the earth and universe
           

God uses a relatively large amount of space in Genesis 1 to make it very clear that He created the universe in six days. There is no mention of billions-of-years or any great period of time. However, many people still wonder whether or not the modern scientific belief that the earth and universe have existed for billions of years can be harmonized with a literal interpretation of the Bible.

           

Most Christians have heard the argument that the word day in Genesis does not mean a literal 24 hour type day, but rather that the days represent 6 great ages of time. This is often referred to as the day-age theory. Many people have wondered whether this argument is valid. It is true, after all, that the Hebrew word for day (yom) can have several different meanings, depending upon its context. However, when all the facts are gathered, it is abundantly clear that God communicated with precision that all creation took place during the time period of six, normal, 24-hour type days.

     The Hebrew word for day (yom) can have several different meanings. The meaning is always clear when read in context.

The first reference to day in the creation account is in the context of a 24 hour cycle of light and dark, And God called the light day, and the darkness He called night. And there was evening and there was morning, one day (NASV, see Genesis One).

When the word day is used with a number, such as day one, day two, etc., it always refers to a literal, 24 hour type day. This is true 100% of the time. This holds true all 359 times that day is used with a number outside of Genesis chapter 1.

There is no Biblical indication that day is used differently in the beginning chapter of Genesis than it is throughout the rest of the book, or the rest of the Old Testament.

The days in Genesis 1 are always specifically used in connection with the words evening and morning. This phrase is used with day 38 times in the Old Testament, not counting Genesis chapter 1. Each time, without exception, the phrase refers to a normal 24 hour type day. It is also important to note that this phrase is never used in the Old Testament in a manner which is obviously metaphoric.

When the phrase evening and morning is coupled with a numbered modifier and the word yom, there is no stronger way of specifying a normal day. We understand that Genesis is describing six Earth rotations, not an unspecified period of billions of years. We see therefore that a study of the Hebrew text of Genesis 1 states in clear language that creation took place during the period of six, normal 24-hour type days. Further evidence of this conclusion is given in Exodus 20:11. This passage, written in stone by the finger of God Himself, states, For in six days the Lord made the heavens and the earth, the sea and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. God, the only witness to the creation events, testifies that all things were created within a literal six day period. Ultimately, whether one accepts this information or not probably depends more upon their interpretation of science than of the scriptures. For without the consideration of modern scientific theories of the age of the universe, there can be little reason to question the clear communication of the Bible.

As stated by Pattle P.T. Pun, a leading progressive creationist, It is apparent that the most straightforward understanding of the Genesis record, without regard to all of the hermeneutical considerations suggested by science, is that God created heaven and earth in six solar days, that man was created in the sixth day, that death and chaos entered the world after the fall of Adam and Eve, that all of the fossils were the result of the catastrophic universal deluge which spared only Noah's family and the animals therewith. [Pattle P.T. Pun, A Theology of Progressive Creationism, Journal of the American Scientific Affiliation, Vol. 39, No. 1 (Ipswich, MA: March 1987), p. 14]. As in all areas of theology, God allows each believer to decide which side to take on a controversial topic. It must be noted, however, that the Scriptures are emphatically clear on this issue. The billions-of-years timescale estimated by modern scientific theories cannot be harmonized with the literal interpretation of the Bible by resorting to the misguided notion of a day-age.

Is the "gap theory" an acceptable way to harmonize the Bible and the geologic record? Answer No!

Many people have tried to place a gap of indeterminate time between the first two verses of Genesis chapter 1. There are many different versions as to what supposedly happened in this "gap" of time. Most versions of the "gap" theory place millions of years of geologic time (including billions of fossil animals) in between these two first verses of Genesis. This is the "ruin-reconstruction" version of the gap theor. However, this undermines the gospel as it allows for death, bloodshed, disease, and suffering before Adam's sin. Because most "ruin-reconstruction" theorists have accepted the millions of years dating for the fossil record, they have thus allowed the fallible theories of scientists to determine the meaning of Scripture.

Some put the fall of Satan in this supposed period. But any rebellion of Satan during this gap of time contradicts God's description of His completed creation on day six as all being "very good" (Genesis 1:31).
           

All versions of the gap theory impose outside ideas on Scripture and thus open the door for further compromise.These are the verses where there is supposed to be a gap:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth. And the earth was without form, and empty; and the darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved on the face of the waters (Genesis 1:1-2).

   Where did the "gap theory" come from?
           

There have been many attempts over the years to harmonize the Genesis account of creation with accepted geology (and its teaching of billions of years for the age of the earth), such as "theistic evolution" and "progressive creation."

The gap theory was another significant attempt by Christian theologians to reconcile the time scale of world history found in Genesis with the popular belief that geologists provide "undeniable" evidence that the world is exceedingly old (billions of years).

           Thomas Chalmers (1780-1847), a notable Scottish theologian and first moderator of the Free Church of Scotland, was perhaps the man most responsible for the gap theory.[1] The idea can be traced back to the rather obscure writings of the Dutchman Episcopius (1583-1643), and was first recorded from one of Chalmers' lectures in 1814.[2] Rev. William Buckland, a geologist, did much to popularize the idea.           

Although Chalmers' writings give very little information about the gap theory,[3] many of the details are obtained from other writers such as the 19th century geologist Hugh Miller, who quoted from Chalmers' lectures on the subject.[4] This ruin-reconstruction view is held by many who use Bible study aids such as the Scofield Reference Bible, Dake's Annotated Reference Bible, and The Newberry Reference Bible. The most notably influential 19th century writer to popularize this view was G.H. Pember, in his book Earth's Earliest Ages,[5] first published in 1884. Numerous editions of this work were published, with the 15th edition appearing in 1942.[6]. The 20th century writer who published the most academic defense of the gap theory was Arthur C. Custance in his work Without Form and Void.[7]. The basic reason for developing and promoting the gap theory can be seen from the following very telling quotes:

Scofield Study Bible: Relegate fossils to the primitive creation, and no conflict of science with the Genesis cosmogony remains.[8]                       

Dake's Annotated Reference Bible: When men finally agree on the age of the earth, then place the many years (over the historical 6,000) between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2, there will be no conflict between the Book of Genesis and science.[9]

           The above quotes are typical of the many compromise positions -- accepting so-called "science"[10] and its long ages for the earth, and incorporating this into Scripture.           

 

A Testimony of Struggle

        Pember's struggle with long "geologic ages" has been the struggle of many Christians, ever since the idea of millions of years for the fossil record became popular in the early 19th century. Many respected Christian leaders of today wrestle with this same issue. Recounting Pember's struggle helps us understand the implications of the gap theory. The following is based on or quoted from his book Earth's Earliest Ages. Pember, like today's conservative Christians, defended the authority of Scripture. He was adamant that one had to start from Scripture alone, and not bring preconceived ideas to Scripture, thus changing its meaning. He boldly chastened people who came to the Bible "filled with myths, philosophies, and prejudices, which they could not altogether throw off, but retained, in part at least, and mingled -- quite unwillingly, perhaps -- with the truth of God" (page 5). He describes how the Church is weakened when man's philosophies are used to interpret God's Word:
                   
For, by skillfully blending their own systems with the truths of Scripture, they so bewildered the minds of the multitude that but few retained the power of distinguishing the revelation of God from the craftily interwoven teachings of men (page 7).                       

And the result is that inconsistent and unsound interpretations have been handed down from generation to generation, and received as if they were integral parts of the Scriptures themselves; while any texts which seemed violently opposed were allegorized, spiritualized, or explained away, till they ceased to be troublesome, or perchance, were even made subservient (page 8).

        He then warns Christians:               

For, if we be observant and honest, we must often ourselves feel the difficulty of approaching the sacred writings without bias, seeing that we bring with us a number of stereotyped ideas, which we have received as absolutely certain, and never think of testing, but only seek to confirm.[11]

                       
   What happened with Pember should warn us that no matter how great a theologian we may be, or how respected and knowledgeable a Christian leader, as finite sinful human beings we cannot easily empty ourselves of preconceived ideas. We see that Pember did exactly what he preached against, and did not realize it. Such is the ingrained nature of the "long ages" issue. He did not want to question Scripture (he accepted the six literal days of creation), but he did not question the long ages either (perhaps he just took the word of Chalmers, who was a highly respected Christian). So he struggled with what to do. Many of today's respected Christian leaders show the same struggle in their commentaries as they then capitulate to "progressive creation" or even "theistic evolution."[12]            Pember recognized that a fossil record of death, decay, and disease before sin was totally inconsistent with the Bible's teaching:
           

For, as the fossil remains clearly show not only were disease and deathinseparable companions of sin then prevalent among the living creatures of the earth, but even ferocity and slaughter.

He understood there could be no carnivores before sin:

        On the Sixth Day God pronounced every thing which He had made to be very good, a declaration which would seem altogether inconsistent with the present condition of the animal as well as the vegetable kingdom. Again: He gave the green herb alone for food "to every beast of the field, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth." There were, therefore, no carnivora in the sinless world (page 35).
Pember taught from Isaiah that the earth will be restored to what it was like at first. There will be no more death, disease, or carnivorous activity. However, because he had accepted the long ages for the fossil record, what was he to do with all this death, disease, and destruction in the record?
       Since, then, the fossil remains are those of creatures anterior to Adam, and yet show evident tokens of disease, death, and mutual destruction, they must have belonged to another world, and have a sin-stained history of their own (page 35).
Thus, in trying to reconcile the long ages with Scripture, Pember justifies the gap theory:
           

There is room for any length of time between the first and second verses of the Bible. And again; since we have no inspired account of geological formations, we are at liberty to believe that they were developed just in the order which we find them. The whole process took place in pre-Adamite times, in connection, perhaps, with another race of beings, and, consequently, does not at present concern us (page 28).

           

With this background, let us consider this gap

theory in detail. Basically, this theory incorporates three strands of thought:

A literal view of Genesis.
Belief in an extremely long but unidentified age for the earth.
An obligation to fit the origin of most of the geologic strata and other geologic evidence between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Gap theorists oppose evolution, but believe in an ancient origin of the universe.    There are many variations of the gap theory. According to Fields, the theory can be summarized as follows:
           
           

In the far distant dateless past, God created a perfect heaven and perfect earth. Satan was ruler of the earth which was peopled by a race of "men" without any souls. Eventually, Satan, who dwelled in a garden of Eden composed of minerals (Ezekiel 28), rebelled by desiring to become like God (Isaiah 14). Because of Satan's fall, sin entered the universe and brought on the earth God's judgment in the form of a flood (indicated by the water of 1:2), and then a global ice age when the light and heat from the sun were somehow removed.

All the plant, animal, and human fossils upon the earth today date from this "Lucifer's flood" and do not bear any genetic relationship with the plants, animals, and fossils living upon the earth today.[13]

Some versions of the gap theory state that the fossil record (geologic column) formed over millions of years, and then God destroyed the earth with a catastrophe (Lucifer's flood) that left it "without form and void."

 Western Bible commentaries written before the 18th century, and before the belief in a long age for the earth became popular, knew nothing of any gap between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. Certainly some commentaries proposed intervals of various lengths of time for reasons relating to Satan's fall,[14] but none proposed a "ruin-reconstruction" situation, or pre-Adamite world. In the 19th century, it became popular to believe that the geological changes occurred slowly, and roughly at the present rate (uniformitarianism[15]). With increased acceptance of uniformitarianism, many theologians urged reinterpretation of Genesis (with ideas such as day-age, "progressive" creation, theistic evolution, days-of-revelation, etc. - see Six Days? Honestly!).
                                                                                                                       
Now, learn about the biblical and logical problems with the Gap Theory (including a a detailed list of problems and an examination of the original Hebrew text) - Go
           

Other information

           

Is the age of the Earth a "trivial" doctrinal point? Answer

10 Dangers of Theistic Evolution - Go...

Answers about the age of the earth - Go...

Is the Bible clear about the age of the earth and universe? Answer

What is Progressive creationism and is it a good way to interpret Genesis? Answer

Progressive creationist Hugh Ross, who is he and what does he believe? Answer

Could all of the events recorded on the 6th day of creation really have taken place during a normal, 24-hour-type day? Answer

           

See the Christian videos:

The World That Perished, Grand Canyon: Monument to the Flood, The Grand Canyon Catastrophe, ORIGINS: How the World Came to Be, Mount St. Helens.

           

See the Christian books: The Young Earth, The World That Perished, The Handy-Dandy Power Persuasion Pack, Creation and Time: A Report on the Progressive Creationist Book by Hugh Ross,

           

Ken Ham
 

Gap Theory: Its Background
The Gap Theory was first proposed in 1814 by a Scottish minister named Chaulmers. It was during this period that scientists were beginning to teach that the earth was billions of years in age. As a response to the scientific community, Chaulmers theorized a "gap" in time between Genesis 1:1 and Genesis 1:2. His motive was probably well intentioned, but there is no scriptural reason to infer or imply that such a gap ever existed.

Gap Theory: The Position & Problems
The Gap Theory holds that the ages of evolution (the periods and eras of "modern science") occurred before the six days of biblical Creation, but were part of the creative process of God. These ages were then terminated by a global cataclysmic event, followed by a period of replenishing the earth, according to the following instructions of God in Genesis: "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth" (Genesis 1:28 KJV).

We may relate the modern concept of "replenishing" to that of refilling a soda at a fast food restaurant, when we "replenish" a half empty cup. But the word replenish has changed in meaning since the King James version of the Bible was written in 1611 AD. At that time, the Hebrew word "male" [mah-lay] was used for the word "replenish," and it meant "to fill," as in an initial act of completion. The word "replenish" didn't take the meaning of "refilling" until it was incorporated into the English language about 1650 AD. The Hebrew word for "replenish," as in "refilling that which was once filled" is "shana." Genesis 1:28 uses the word "male" in the original Hebrew text. So, God told Adam to "go fill the earth," and did not imply a refilling or replenishing of what had once been filled or completed.

Probably the greatest problem with the Gap Theory is that it makes God responsible for the creation of evil. The theory implies that God used the methods of death and decay on a global scale for billions of years in order to accomplish His unknown purposes in a primeval world. The fossils and geological records, which the theory tries to place before Genesis 1:2, are the direct testimony of this violence and death. However, Paul writes about the manner in which Christ will destroy the last enemy - death: "For he must reign, till he hath put all enemies under his feet. The last enemy that shall be destroyed is death" (1 Corinthians 15:25-26 KJV).

Death cannot be construed as a benefit that God instituted in order to aid mankind or creation. Evolutionism teaches that death is part of the process that nature uses in order to continually promote each species and allow adaptation to the environment (survival of the fittest). The Bible clearly teaches that death is the result of the rebellion of Satan and Adam's sin, and not something that God created during the time period that gap theorists believe exists between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Chaulmers taught that the rebellion of Satan and his demons took place before Adam was created (a pre-adamite rebellion.) Satan's rebellion and eventual placement in Eden is actually discussed in a couple of books of the Bible, including Ezekiel: "Thou hast been in Eden the garden of God; every precious stone was thy covering, the sardius, topaz, and the diamond. Thou art the anointed cherub that covereth; and I have set thee so: thou wast upon the holy mountain of God; thou hast walked up and down in the midst of the stones of fire. Thou wast perfect in thy ways from the day that thou wast created, till iniquity was found in thee" (Ezekiel 28:13-15 KJV).

To believe that a rebellious Satan was on earth prior to "day six" is in direct conflict with the following scripture: "And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day" (Genesis 1:31 KJV). If God beheld everything after day six and it was "very good," how could Lucifer have rebelled back in verses one and two? That is simply impossible, since scripture would be in conflict with itself, which is an interpretive violation. Everything would not be "very good" if sin was present in the Garden and Lucifer had already rebelled against God. The concept of a pre-adamite rebellion seems to fall apart quite rapidly upon further examination of all the scriptures associated with the fall of Lucifer. Since there could not have been a pre-adamite rebellion, Satan's actions could not have accounted for the age-long spectacle of suffering and death in the world during the geologic ages that preceded it. Thus, God would have to be responsible for the death and suffering in the pre-adamite world, but that is impossible.

Gap Theory: No Support in Scripture
The Gap Theory has been advocated by many sincere Bible teachers, but it actually involves numerous and serious fallacies. In general, contemporary biblical scholars and scientists do not accept this theory. There is no scriptural support for any of its tenets that pass the tests of sound Biblical interpretation.          

Authors: Mark Van Bebber and Paul S. Taylor of Eden Communications

           

Copyright (C) 1995, Eden Communications, All Rights Reserved - except as noted on attached Usage and Copyright page that grants ChristianAnswers.Net users generous rights for putting this page to work in their homes, personal witnessing, churches and schools.

Preface

For 2,000 years, nearly all Christians believed and taught that the earth was approximately 6,000 years old as revealed by God's Word. In the early 1800s, some unbelievers began to teach that the earth was "millions of years old." This old earth teaching laid the groundwork for the evolution theory, which became popular a few years later. In an effort to blend both beliefs, some theologians invented the "gap theory" which allowed "millions of years" to be placed between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2.

As this new gap theory began to be accepted by the church in the early 1800s, the majority of Christians offered little resistance. This effectively "neutralized" them in the war between the Bible and the rapidly spreading worldview of evolutionism. This godless theory resulted in the rise of such philosophies as communism, humanism, and Nazism. The acceptance of the gap theory opened the floodgates for these ideologies, which have caused untold suffering as well as hundreds of millions of deaths in the last two centuries.

We hope this booklet will help the reader see that the gap theory, which many well meaning people have promoted, is unscriptural, unscientific, unnecessary and is a dangerous compromise of God's Word.

- Dr. Kent Hovind

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Dr. Hovind's preface reveals a prejudice and narrow-minded bias from the first paragraph. His remarks that "...in the early 1800s, some unbelievers began to teach..." shows that he thinks that any Christian who does not accept a 6,000 year old age for the heavens and Earth can not be true believers. This implies that, if you don't believe like he does, you are not in the Lord Jesus Christ. Dr. Hovind is making a personal judgment of people's salvation in direct contradiction to Paul's admonishment in Romans 10:6-11.

Dr. Hovind infers that belief in the Gap Theory is automatic acceptance of the Theory of Evolution. That is not true. Old Earth Biblical Creationism does NOT require belief in Evolution. In this second paragraph Dr. Hovind implies that belief in the Gap Theory was the root cause for the rise of the Theory of Evolution. He then infers that it was acceptance of the Gap Theory that was responsible for evil political systems like Nazism. No, evil men and their political ambitions were responsible. But, then again, Dr. Hovind has emotionally branded anyone who does not believe as he does as being an evil unbeliever.

Hovind claims the Gap Theory is "unscriptural"...but it comes from the Bible. He claims it is "unscientific"...but it deals with the realities of the geologic record. He claims it is "unnecessary"...but it opens a way for understanding the origins of Satan and the Angels. He claims it is a "compromise" of God's Word...but it witnesses to the truth of both the written Word and the natural history of the world, both of which God ordained.

Pious and gratuitous ramblings to call attention to one's self and appear devout to men.

"I would like to thank the Motion Picture Academy and all the little people who made my Oscar winning performance possible."

-- Gaines " gayboy "Johnson

________________________________________________

Dedication by Stephen Lawwell

This book is dedicated
to my Lord and Savior Jesus Christ
for his unchanging grace and mercy,

To my wife Barbie
who undying love
has been a blessed gift from God,

To my parents
whose guidance and love
have shown me the way,

 

To my pastor
Jim Tedder, my Moses,
whose boldness and wisdom
have been an inspiration to me,

To Dr. Kent Hovind
whose teaching and example
have prepared me for battle,

And to those believers
who have broken the chains of tradition
in search of the truth.

 
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The Gap Theory
Genesis 1:1 & Genesis 1:2
Are there billions of years between them?

"In the beginning, God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters."

Genesis 1:1-2

When an author decides to write a book, it is of utmost importance for him to begin with a powerful and thought-provoking beginning. The author must do this in a clear and concise manner so that there is no confusion. God was no different in His approach to place His Word in written form. Within the first two verses of the Bible, He reveals to us with power and clarity the perfect triune creation, brought into existence by the perfect triune God.

The simple fact, quite evident to all, is that something drastic and devastating happened to change God's perfect creation, as described in Genesis 1:1, into the sin-stricken world that exists today. What exactly happened to bring this about, and more importantly, when did it happen? The answer to that question takes us to the very center of a controversy that has existed in theological circles for nearly 200 years. The controversy surrounds the first two verses of the Bible and a theory known simply as the "gap theory." 

-- Hovind

________________________________________________
 

I have no argument with what the man says in this first paragraph. His statement is quite correct in the abstract.

I also have no argument with the fact that, "quite evident to all...something drastic and devastating happened to change God's perfect creation..." of Genesis 1:1 into what exists today. Where the author and I do differ is on the details of exactly WHEN it happened, WHY it happened, and WHAT happened afterwards that finds us in the "...sin-stricken world that exists today".

You will note in reading Genesis 1:1-2 that, according to the literal wording of the Holy Bible, the Earth is already devastated and shrouded in darkness before the start of God's work of the first day and BEFORE He says "..Let there be light" in verse Genesis 1:3. This is the theological point of controversy and departure between Young Earth and Old Earth Creationists. Young Earthers believe that God first created the Earth as a flooded mud ball in the dark, and then proceeded to decorate it. Gap Theorists ask the question: Why did God's "perfect creation" as described in Genesis 1:1 become a flooded mud ball in the dark in the first place?

Since God saw fit to elaborate on the specifics of the planet Earth's condition at this point in time (the planet is already there, covered in water, and shrouded in darkness), we must assume that there is important information there to be prayerfully considered. This is not a throw away line. 

-- Johnson

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What is the Gap Theory?

The gap theory comes wrapped in many different shapes and forms. There are as many variations of this theory as there are theologians to support it. Simply stated, the gap theory is the idea that a long period of time existed between God's initial creation in Genesis 1:1 when "God created the heaven and the earth" and Genesis 1:2 when the earth was "without form and void." Most gap theorists believe that prior to Genesis 1:2 the "first" earth was inhabited by angelic creatures, such as Lucifer, as well as the mysterious dinosaurs. A pre-Adamite race of men is also thought to have populated the earth as this time. Many gap theorists teach that the world existed in this manner for millions of years, if not billions. The gap's end is believed to have occurred when God, finding iniquity in Satan's heart, was compelled to destroy the earth with a flood and make it "without form, and void" (Genesis 1:2). God then proceeded to "re-create" the earth in six literal days as described in Genesis 1:3-31. The gap theory, also known as the "ruin-restoration" theory, is displayed for illustrative purposes in the time line below.

-- Hovind

________________________________________________

A note of clarification. We do not advocate that a pre-Adamite race of men populated the old Earth at the same time as the dinosaurs. We advocate that a pre-Adamite race of hominids (man-like beings) populated the latter times of the old world, long after the dinosaurs had come and gone. The only people who have men and dinosaurs living at the same time are Young Earth Creationists and the Hollywood movie directors who made films like "One Million Years BC" (1966) starring Raquel Welch. In both cases we are dealing with creative Science Fiction.

Concerning God destroying the old Earth to make it 'without form and void' that destruction was not just limited to the Earth and it was not sudden, by any means. It was the inevitable and long term cumulative effects of Satan's initial rebellion in the Earth's ancient past and the end result of how it corrupted God's original pristine creation of Genesis 1:1, including the heavens and the Earth. The remainder of the author's points are essentially accurate.

-- johnson

________________________________________________

This is the original graphic from Dr. Dino's web article showing fall of Satan late in geologic history, as he and Young Earth Creationists understand the Ruin-Reconstruction theory.

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To resolve this controversy, an attempt must be made to understand the reasoning behind the gap theory. One must understand the history of the gap theory and the Scripture references used by the theory's proponents. After grasping what the gap theory entails, one must then use the light of Scripture to attempt to validate or invalidate the theory (Acts 17:11). At the conclusion of this validation process, two questions will then be left to answer: Does the Bible teach the gap theory, and does it really matter whether the gap theory is taught or not?

________________________________________________

I have no argument with Hovind on the truth of this statement. We will follow the author's reasoning throughout this "validation process" and show that, unless you have all your geologic and Biblical facts correct, one ends up with a badly flawed thesis.

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History of the Gap Theory

 Before getting into the Scriptural aspect of this discussion, one needs to first understand the background and history of the gap theory. Thomas Chalmers (1780-1847), a notable Scottish theologian and first moderator of the Free Church of Scotland, is credited with being the first proponent of the gap theory. His proposal of the theory was first recorded in 1814 in one of his lectures at Edinburgh University. Until 1814, no theologian had put forth the idea of a gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. Chalmer's teaching to a great extent reflected what was happening in the late 1700s and early 1800s. ________________________________________________

To say that Thomas Chalmers was the first theologian to put forth the idea of a gap before 1814 is misleading. He was the first after the publication of the AV1611 King James Bible. But there is documented evidence available that other theologians between the time of Christ and Chalmers (and even before) also noted the "gap" in the Genesis narrative.

Here is an off-site link to a website with copious reference information about the Gap Theory.

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In 1795, James Hutton (1726-1797) introduced the scientific doctrine of uniformitarianism in his book Theory of the Earth. Hutton believed that the processes of the past (e.g. climate, sedimentation, decay, etc.) occurred at the same rate as those of the present - a way of thinking that was prophesied in II Peter 3:4 as a sign of the last days. Uniformitarianism is now summarized in the phrase, "the present is the key to the past." His questionable logic became the foundation for many of the "scientific" discoveries in the early 19th century. Hutton's teachings most affected the field of geology, then in its infant stages. 

 ________________________________________________

 Following in the footsteps of Hutton, Charles Lyell (1797 - 1875) became known as the "high priest of uniformitarianism" and "the father of modern geology." Lyell's famous three-volume work, Principles of Geology, quickly became the catalyst for the geologic movement's move to uniformitarian principles. Many early geologists, after studying the numerous layers of sediment existing in the earth's crust, assumed the layers were a result of the flood of Noah, knowing that moving water causes many layers to be deposited. Others claimed they had no idea as to how they were deposited. A few thought they layers were deposited slowly over million of years at the same rate layers are deposited today. This slow but steady accumulation was thought to be an example of uniformitarianism. For hundreds of years, scientists in all fields of study had worked within a 6,000-year time frame for the age of the earth, primarily drawn from the chronology of the Bible. With the introduction of uniformitarian principles into science, geologists felt they finally had the answer to the mystery.

Shortly after the publication of Hutton's and Lyell's books, Christians began to feel that they were under a scientific attack for their belief that the earth was only a few thousand years old. One has only to read the writings of Thomas Chalmers to understand how sharply he felt the attacks of science upon the Scriptures. Some geologists and theologians, knowing that the uniformitarian deposit of sediment layers would require millions of years, quickly rejected the Biblical age of the earth and moved to adjust the Bible's time frame to coincide with their new theory. Chalmers, like many other Christians at this time, began to seek a way to harmonize the Genesis account of creation with the newly accepted teachings of geology. He attempted to do this with the gap theory.

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Here is a link to an on-line version of Charles Lyell's  Principles of Geology.

There is no denying that the advent of the geological sciences did, indeed, pose a challenge to traditional Creation beliefs. What must be kept in mind is the fact that men searching for the truth through observations of processes found in the Earth (That God Created) were revealing truths about the Earth through utilizing observations of principles of physics and chemistry (Which God also Created) to arrive at conclusions that logically contradicted the traditional creationist views about the age of the Earth. Since it was God himself who created all things, including the physical things that were contradicting the traditional church beliefs, should we blame men for attacking the things of God? Hardly! In essence, what we have here is a case of God (through the things within his creation) revealing things to mankind that they were overlooking in the Bible and, Himself, contradicting those traditional beliefs.

Keep firmly in mind the fact that leading thinkers in earlier times thought the world was flat, even though the Scriptures they had access to already clearly contradicted that tradition:

Isaiah 40:22 "It is he that sitteth upon the circle of the earth, and the inhabitants thereof are as grasshoppers; that stretcheth out the heavens as a curtain, and spreadeth them out as a tent to dwell in:"

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 Since 1814, many theologians have followed Chalmers' example and attempted to accommodate both Scripture and the new supposed science. In 1859, Charles Darwin's book The Origin of Species introduced scientists and theologians to the possibility of an even longer time frame for the age of the earth. For example, G.H. Pember stated in his book Earth's Earliest Ages, "There is room for any length of time between the first and second verse of the Bible." Statements such as these pressured many Christians to accept other dangerous theories under the guise of "science." Theologians struggled to remain current with popular scientific findings.

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You will note an underlying theme in the author's thesis that anything that contradicts the Young Earth doctrine is a "Dangerous Theory" and a general vilification of all "Science" (except their own).

In evoking Darwin and evolutionary theory, the YEC author always equates an old age for the earth with Darwinism. This is guilt by association. The truth is, the gap theory does not depend on Evolutionary Theory. In fact, when you examine the Ruin-Reconstruction doctrine as a whole, you will find that it invalidates the Theory of Evolution.

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The gap theory trend gained its greatest support in 1909 when C.I. Scofield first published his Scofield Study Bible. Dr. Scofield supported the gap theory in his explanation that "the first creative act refers to the dateless past, and gives scope for all the geologic ages." He commented "no conflict of science with the Genesis cosmogony remains." Dr. Scofield also advocated the "Day-Age" theory - another "time-allowing" theory teaching that the six days of creation were not literal 24-hour days but actually long periods of time. The Scofield Study Bible, believed to be the most widely used study Bible of its kind, resulted in a widespread acceptance of the gap theory, which continues today.
About the same time the Scofield Study Bible began its circulation, another very popular theological work was published, Dispensational Truth by Clarence Larkin. In his book, Dr. Larkin detailed the existence of a "chaotic earth" between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. His willingness to "fall back then upon Science" allowed science to greatly infiltrate his theology (Note his capitalization of the word Science). This influence can be seen in the way Dr. Larkin embraced the "Nebular Hypothesis," a predecessor of the "Big Bang" theory.

Regardless of the reason, the gap theory has gained considerable support from several modern theologians. These theologians, such as Arthur C. Custance, author of Without Form and Void (1970), and well known preachers Billy Graham and John Hagee, have adopted the gap theory in one form or another. For some, the gap theory is the only explanation they have to make the Bible fit their preconceived idea for the age of the earth. For others, it is the only way they can explain certain passages in Scripture.

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It should be noted, for purposes of fairness and balance, that Dr. Scofield did make one error in his exegesis. Specifically, Scofield advocated that Jeremiah 4:23-26 was a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2 (compare words "without form and void"). But, in rightly-divided reality, Jeremiah 4:23-26 describes the state of the Earth immediately following the Great Tribulation and the Lord's return, and just before the Lord God regenerates the heavens and Earth for the 1,000 Kingdom on the earth (See Isaiah 65:17-25)

Matthew 19:28 "And Jesus said unto them, Verily I say unto you, That ye which have followed me, in the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of his glory, ye also shall sit upon twelve thrones, judging the twelve tribes of Israel."

A counter point to be made here is that there must be a very compelling reason why so many theologians accepted the Gap Theory. Why should we not think that these men were honestly seeking truth any less than other theologians who did not accept it?

It should be pointed out that Clarence Larkin was a Fundamentalist and Dispensationalist and espoused many of the great doctrines of premillinnial eschatology that are still embraced by mainstream Fundamentalism today. What we have in today's brand of Young Earth Creationist Fundamentalism is a departure from one of those great doctrines (and faith in the KJV Bible).

-- Johnson

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What scriptures are used to support the Gap Theory?

Four main passages - Genesis 1:28; Isaiah 45:18; Jeremiah 4:23-24; II Peter 3:5-6 - remain the battleground arguments for the gap theory. Using specific Scriptural references, modern theologians have endeavored to support it.

Genesis 1:28 is undoubtedly the verse most quoted by gap theorists. Genesis 1:28 "And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it; and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth." Much of the validity drawn from this verse centers on the usage of the word replenish. Gap theorists believe that this is God's command for Adam and Eve to refill, or repopulate, the earth, assuming the previous inhabitants of the earth were destroyed in the Genesis 1:2 catastrophe.

The problem that gap theorists encounter stems from misunderstanding the word replenish. The Hebrew word used here is male, which means, "to fill." In 1611, the time of the King James translation, English dictionaries defined the word replenish as "to supply fully, to fill." Nearly a century later, a second definition arose, "to fill or build up again." Most dictionaries still list both meanings. If the author of Genesis 1 had been attempting to convey the idea that God wanted Adam and Eve to repopulate the earth, he would have used the Hebrew word Shana, which means "to fill again."

In recent years, Isaiah 45:18 has become the verse to which most gap theorists appeal in defense of their view. In fact, the New Scofield Reference Bible removed its gap theory footnote from its original place under Genesis 1:2 and placed it beneath Isaiah 45:18. Isaiah 45:18 "For thus saith the LORD that created the heavens; God himself that formed the earth and made it; he hath established it, he created it not in vain, he formed it to be inhabited: I am the LORD; and there is none else." The debate concerning this verse surrounds Isaiah's use of the phrase, "he created it not in vain." The words "in vain," translated from the Hebrew word tohu, also occur in Genesis 1:2 where it is translated "without form." Gap theorists conclude that God did not create the earth without form (tohu), as described in Genesis 1:2, but that it became without form (tohu). Claiming that Genesis 1:2 was translated incorrectly, gap theorists believe that it should read, "And the earth became without form, and void." This attempt by gap theorists to question God's ability to preserve His Word (Psalms 12:6-7) in the English language is one of grievous error. Nowhere does Scripture use the word tohu to describe a result of God's judgment. In the Hebrew language, tohu means "not formed," not "formlessness resulting from a judgment." It must be noted that when the Old Testament was translated into the Greek language, the word chaos was available for them to convey this idea of judgment. To the detriment of the Gap Theory, the Greek translators chose not to use this word in either Genesis 1:2 or Isaiah 45:18.

Gap theorists frequently quote Jeremiah 4:23-24 in their attempt to depict the desolate earth of Genesis 1:2. They believe that the prophet Jeremiah is describing in detail God's act of judgment upon the "first" earth. Jeremiah 4:23-24 "I beheld the earth, and, lo, it was without form, and void; and the heavens, and they had no light. I beheld the mountains, and, lo, they trembled, and all the hills moved lightly." The phrase "without form, and void" seems to imply an association with Genesis 1:2, but the word earth in this verse is not a reference to the planet earth. Earth in this verse refers to the land of Judah, as discussed in Jeremiah 4:7, 20 & 27, and not to the past at all. These two verses, when read in the context of the whole chapter, reveal the prophet Jeremiah's insight into the coming destruction of Judah by the Babylonian armies.

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johnsons response:

As mentioned earlier, the passage in Jeremiah 4:23 has been wrongly interpreted by many gap theory supporters as a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2.

Now, in respect to Genesis 1:28 and the word "Replenish" the author has conveniently neglected to tell you that the same Hebrew word is once again rendered as "replenish" in Genesis 9:1 in God's commission to Noah:

Genesis 9:1 "And God blessed Noah and his sons, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth."

Note that the term "replenish" used here is precisely in the context of Noah and his family repopulating an Earth which was destroyed by the flood. Noah's family REPLACED all previous families living on the Earth prior to the flood. Adam and Eve repopulated the Earth replacing the race of hominids that flourished in the old world. (see Lifeforms before and After the Seven Days)

What we have here is a not so subtle attack on the Authority of the King James Bible translation. In order to defend Young Earth doctrine one MUST get rid of the KJV Bible's authority and replace it with another. You will see this is a reoccurring syndrome in those who claim they believe the KJV, but really don't when pressed.

And in this paragraph we have the Young Earth Creationists doing EXACTLY the same thing that they accuse others of being guilty of. Specifically, claiming that gap theory advocates question "God's ability to preserve His Word" when they have just committed the very same atrocity in the previous segment by arguing that the Hebrew word 'male' at Genesis 1:28 should be rendered as "fill" instead of "replenish" in the KJV. 
As we acknowledged previously the passage in Jeremiah 4:23-26 is not, in fact, a cross-reference to Genesis 1:2 as, indeed, many gap theory proponents believe. Here the YEC author points that out. Unfortunately, they too have missed the yet to be fulfilled prophecy of the verse. Instead, they relegate it solely to the historical context, completely overlooking the prophetic. Why? Because if they did then they would be forced to admit that the 'term without form, and void' is, indeed, a reference to a restoration of a pre-existing planet with a devastated surface. In Jeremiah 4:23-6 it describes the surface conditions of the planet Earth before an act of Divine Regeneration (future and yet to come).
 

The belief of most gap theorists is that II Peter 3:5-6 is not referring to the flood of Noah, but "Lucifer's flood," that brought on the formless water-covered earth described in Genesis 1:2. II Peter 3:5-6 "For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old, and the earth standing out of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed with water, perished:" No Scripture exists to support the idea that Peter was referring to "Lucifer's flood." With no references in Scripture to such an event, teachers of this opinion are guilty of "adding to the word of God." There are good reasons, however, to believe that Peter is referring to the flood of Noah in these verses. The only flood to which Peter had previously referred is the flood of Noah (I Peter 3:20; II Peter 2:5). If Peter were referring to a different flood, he most certainly would have done so with an explanation. The words, "willingly ignorant," suggests that it is a flood that is well-known, yet one that they have rejected. Possibly these scoffers could be willingly ignorant of Noah's flood even though there is a detailed description of it in the Old Testament and ample evidence for it all over the surface of the earth today. However, one could not be willingly ignorant of a flood that God had never revealed to them in His Word.  - Hovind

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Actually, Genesis 1:2 is the Scriptural cross-reference to the event. They just don't want to admit it.

They also neglected to finish the passage:

2 Peter 3:7 "But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."

The "heavens" were not destroyed in Noah's flood. We have the same heavens today as before Noah's flood. Only the surface of the Earth was affected. Think and pray about that fact.

 Oh, but God DID reveal another flood. There is one, and only one other Earth covering flood event mentioned in the Bible and that is at Genesis 1:2 where the Spirit is moving over the waters. And, indeed, the Young Earth advocates are certainly remaining "willingly ignorant" of this ESTABLISHED SCRIPTURAL FACT because it blows a gaping hole in their doctrine. This is nothing more than a smokescreen to confuse the issue and avoid rightly-dividing the passage in 2 Peter 3:5-7 and the concise parsing of the wording:

"For this they willingly are ignorant of, that by the word of God the heavens were of old [], and the earth standing out [] of the water and in the water: Whereby the world that then was, being overflowed [] with water, perished []: But the heavens and the earth, which are now, by the same word are kept in store, reserved unto fire against the day of judgment and perdition of ungodly men."
 (2 Pet 3:5-7 KJV)

As for allegations of confusing the words "Earth" and "World" you will find a complete discussion of that very subject on our website. -- johnson

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Gap theorists also attempt to draw from the phrase in II Peter 3:6, "the world that then was…perished." They interpret it to mean that at the time of Noah's flood the world did not perish because Noah and his family were spared. They feel this fact points to an earlier catastrophe in which every living organism was destroyed. Actually, the world did perish during the flood of Noah as described in Genesis 7:23. Genesis 7:23 says, "And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark."

This verse does not include Noah and his family as part of "every living substance." God clearly had separated Noah and his family from the world by placing them in the ark. Gap theorists confuse the word world, referring to people, society, and their surroundings as a whole (Galatians 4:3), with the word earth, describing the physical place in which people dwell. Isaiah 18:3 and Isaiah 23:17 explains that the world is something that dwells upon the earth, not something that is the earth. God's judgment at the time of Noah brought the destruction of the world, not the destruction of the earth.

This lack of understanding has led many theologians to teach the "three-earth" theory, which is based upon the gap theory. The three-earth theory simply states that the earth prior to Genesis 1:2 was the first earth, the current earth is the second earth, and the earth God has yet to create, as described in Isaiah 65:17 and II Peter 3:13, is the third earth. Revelation 21:1 refutes this belief in stating that the current earth is the first earth, not the second. As previously explained, the Scriptural references used in defense of the gap theory have absolutely no merit. However, to be fair and complete, a detailed look must be taken, examining the two assumptions put forth by the gap theory: 1) that Satan was created prior to the six days of creation, and 2) that Satan fell before the six days of creation.

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The new heavens and Earth of Isaiah 65:17-25 and Revelation 21:1 are NOT the same reference. Isaiah 65:17 is a reference to the heavens and Earth during the 1,000 year reign of the Lord Jesus Christ. Revelation 21:1 refers to the heaven and Earth that He creates after the great white throne final judgment. We know this because there is still DEATH around during the period of Isaiah 65:17-25 (read verse Isaiah 65:20) but death is not cast into the lake of fire until the end of the 1,000 years (see Revelation 20:14).We will show you it is not an assumption, and show you where their assumptions contradict the Scriptures on this matter. This is the key doctrinal issue.

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When was Satan created, and when did he fall from Heaven?

The Bible, unlike some other religious documents, teaches that Satan was a created being - the anointed cherub of God (Ezekiel 28:14). Known as Lucifer, Satan is thought to have been the chief musician of heaven due to the fact that God had created pipes and tabrets inside of his body (Ezekiel 28:13). God had named Satan and the angels the "sons of God" (Genesis 6:2; Job 1:6; Job 2:1; Job 38:7), a title given only to those that were created directly by God and not born to parents. Even Adam, since he was created directly by God, is referred to in this manner (Luke 3:38). The Bible clearly teaches that Satan was created, and that he was not co-eternal with God.

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Absolutely TRUE! But the Bible also says that "sons" of God were ALREADY CREATED AND PRESENT on the day the Lord God created the heaven and earth (Read Job 38:4-7). In that passage the "sons of God" are singing when God lays the Earth's foundation.

This means they (the "sons of God" and Satan) were already created before Genesis 1:1, if you take your Scripture as literal. This Scriptural fact is overlooked by the YEC.

Note: The above graphic is talking about Christians being titled as "sons of God" which is true, but the angels, including the fallen ones (See Genesis 6:1-2) are also called "sons of God" and they are not Christians (or true humans). This is a confusion of the issue.

In Exodus 20:11 and Exodus 31:17, God says He created all things in six days.

Exodus 20:11 "For in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that in them is, and rested the seventh day: wherefore the LORD blessed the Sabbath day, and hallowed it."

Exodus 31:17 "It is a sign between me and the children of Israel for ever: for in six days the LORD made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested." -- Hovind

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Notice that "the sea" is set apart from the Earth in this verse as something separate. This is the contextual qualifier of the verse because the "Sea" spoken of here is the waters (or sea) above the firmament which was placed there at the time of Genesis 1:6-8 and which is no longer there after the final judgment:

And I saw a new heaven and a new earth: for the first heaven and the first earth were passed away; and there was no more sea.
(Revelation 21:1 KJV)

Thus Exodus 20:11 is absolutely true - this present heaven and Earth, and that Sea above the firmament was, indeed, made in six days, just as the book of Genesis states. But Exodus 20:11 is not a reference to the first time creation of all things. Genesis 1:1 does NOT read:

"In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth, and the sea."

-- johnson

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The phrase "and all that in them is" included Satan, the angels, stars, space, earth, plants, animals, and man. Genesis 2:1 further supports this through its use of the phrase "and all the host of them." It is not possible to say it more plainly than the words used in Exodus 20:11! Since everything was made in the six days, then obviously Satan was also made then. Genesis 1:5 states, "And the evening and the morning were the first day," demonstrating there is no gap between Genesis 1:1 and 1:2. The translators of the KJV wisely chose this word rather than the incorrect way many new translations say it was "a day" or "one day" to allow room for the gap theory. -- Hovind

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No, the creation of Satan and the angels during the six days is an assumption, not a Scriptural fact. There is NO MENTION of God creating Satan or Angels anywhere in the Genesis narrative. Satan first shows up afterwards (Genesis 3) which shows that he was already around, and was already an enemy of both God and man.Now an appeal to the Authority of the literal letter of the KJV Bible after previously challenging the literal letter (replenish) at Genesis 1:28. Typical and Hypocritical YEC tactic. The statement is a belief, not a Scriptural fact. Now the author claims he can prove something that is not true in the first place. Watch the Scriptures rip this reasoning apart.

Satan was created during the six-day creation week. Scripture leaves no room for a period of time prior to "the first day." Is it possible to determine which day Satan was created?  - Hovind

The statement is a belief, not a Scriptural fact. Now the author claims he can prove something that is not true in the first place. Watch the Scriptures rip this reasoning apart. - johnson

The first chapter of Genesis makes no mention of the timing for God's creation of Satan and the angels. However, the book of Job, thought to pre-date the compiled writings of Genesis, contains references of Satan as one of the sons of God. In Job 1:6 and Job 2:1, God allows Satan to plague His servant Job.  Job 38:4-7 "Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? Declare, if thou hast understanding. Who hath laid the measures thereof, if thou knowest? Or who hath stretched the line upon it? Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened? Or who laid the corner stone thereof; When the morning stars sang together; and all the sons of God shouted for joy?"  - Hovind

 

Keep in mind what I mentioned earlier about the "sons of God" being already present and singing when God "laid the foundations" of the Earth. The foundation of the Earth (the planet) is already "laid" at Genesis 1:2:

"And the Earth WAS.."

It was already there so these "sons of God" were already created and there by this time, as well.

Of course this logic is lost on the author who will now go through considerable gyrations to place the creation of Satan and the "sons of God" somewhere in or after the seven day creation week.- johnson

Job 38:7 explains that "all the sons of God," celebrated a portion of God's creation. The "sons of God shouted for joy" because God had just "laid the foundations of the earth." This clearly shows that Satan was created prior to the earth's foundations being laid. The "foundations" probably refer to "land," appearing on the third day of Creation (Genesis 1:9). The creation of Satan most likely occurred on the first, second, or possibly third day of God's creation. The only other clue given by Scripture is a reference to Satan as the "son of the morning" (Isaiah 14:12), possibly placing Satan's creation in the morning on one of the first three days. - Hovind

All wrong and all guesses. The "sons of God" (and Satan) had to be created BEFORE the Lord God "..laid the earth's foundations.." before He started the work (before Genesis 1:2). By the author's reasoning God made the earth, then created a cheering section, sometime after the work started and before it was finished. The word "laid" is PAST TENSE. Some people can't read 6th grade English. -  scoffing johnson

Since everything was created in six days (Exodus 20:11) and Lucifer was created (Ezekiel 28:13,15), the gap theory's second assumption, the idea that Satan fell prior to the six days of creation, is already invalidated.

-- Hovind

Only in the author's twisted circular reasoning. -  crybaby johnson

Obvioslly Mr johnson just does not like this idea, he has to resort to name calling.

but anyway, The timing of Satan's fall is extremely important to the integrity of the gap theory, since its proponents use it to mark the end of the gap and the beginning of Genesis 1:2. An answer to the time of Satan's fall can be found with a careful look at the Scriptural accounts of this event. The first clue, found in Isaiah 14:14, records the words of Satan at the time of his fall - "I will ascend above the heights of the clouds; I will be like the most High." Since the clouds could not have formed prior to God's creation of water on day one, Satan fell after day one. Referring back to Job 38:4-7 that Satan was "shouting for joy" as the foundations were being laid, his fall must have occurred after day two or day three. Isaiah 14:13 also reveals to us that Satan's fall must have occurred after the creation of the "stars," which occurred on day four. Certainly, these verses imply Satan could not have fallen before creation. The Bible gives one of the most influential clues about the timing of Satan's fall in Ezekiel 28:13-17, which presents a picture of what Satan was like prior to God's discovery of iniquity in his heart. God revealed that Lucifer, in an unfallen state, existed in the Garden of Eden, which was not created until day six. Many gap theorists have tried to explain this by saying tat the Garden of Eden in Ezekiel 28:13-17 could not have been the one described in the book of Genesis. To preserve their theory, they invented another garden just as they invented another flood. Neither is every mentioned in God's Word. The gap theorists' opinion comes from the fact that Ezekiel describes the Garden as having "every precious stone," which, they say, is different from the Genesis account. This difference is unsubstantiated Biblically since the Genesis Eden was described as having precious stones (Genesis 2:11-12). -- Hovind

Ask yourself a question: If there was a world on the Earth in earlier times (and evidence of living plants and creatures in the deeply buried fossil record), would there not have been sunshine and clouds up in the sky. Would not the night sky have stars? The author is basing his reasoning on the pretext that the heavens and Earth were only first created 6,000 years ago. The geologic facts tell a different story and the record of an ancient Earth is written in stone (by the hand of God), revealing even that there were more days to a year in the ancient past then these present days. This record also includes a long history of death going way back in time. The only way to dispute this is to deny the entire body of all the radio dating methodology which is based, of course, on the laws of physics that God Himself ordained. The Young Earth Creationists do exactly that. They are in denial. First of all,  besides the fact that i just dont like the idea, the Bible says that Lucifer was in "Eden the garden of God" not the "garden of Eden" which is not exactly the same. By noting this difference you gain another valuable cross-reference to Lucifer's fall. Here is a passage that, like Ezekiel 28:13-17, is addressing Satan in the Spirit, but is also a historical reference to "The Assyrian" (Ezekiel 31-3): 

 Ezekiel 31:7-11 "Thus was he fair in his greatness, in the length of his branches: for his root was by great waters. The cedars in the garden of God could not hide him: the fir trees were not like his boughs, and the chesnut trees were not like his branches; nor any tree in the garden of God was like unto him in his beauty. I have made him fair by the multitude of his branches: so that all the trees of Eden, that were in the garden of God, envied him. Therefore thus saith the Lord GOD; Because thou hast lifted up thyself in height, and he hath shot up his top among the thick boughs, and his heart is lifted up in his height; I have therefore delivered him into the hand of the mighty one of the heathen; he shall surely deal with him: I have driven him out for his wickedness."

Notice that here Satan is referred to as a great tree. Of course, this is metaphorical, but it shows that the Earth itself (Past and Present) is the "garden of God" and that is not the same as the "garden of Eden" -- johnson

God said in Genesis 1:31 that He "saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good." If Satan had already fallen, God could not have made this statement. The clues of Scripture confirm that Satan could not have possibly fallen until after day six.-- Hovind

After determining the earliest point at which Satan could have fallen, discovering the latest point that it could have occurred proves to be very difficult. The next "date" given in Genesis 5:3, records, "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and call his name Seth." This clue, however, helps deduce the time of Satan's fall.

After determining the earliest point at which Satan could have fallen, discovering the latest point that it could have occurred proves to be very difficult. The next "date" given in Genesis 5:3, records, "And Adam lived an hundred and thirty years, and begat a son in his own likeness, after his image; and call his name Seth." This clue, however, helps deduce the time of Satan's fall.

From the sixth day of creation up until the time Seth was born to Adam and Eve, several events had transpired - Satan had fallen, Adam and Eve had fallen into sin, Adam and Eve had been expelled from the Garden of Eden, Cain and Abel had been born, and Abel had been murdered by Cain. - Hovind

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This entire discourse, including the "common sense" assumptions that will follow, overlook some very important Scriptural facts:

"Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin; and so death passed upon all men, for that all have sinned:"
(Romans 5:12 KJV)

That verse is absolutely true, in context.  Death entered this world (our world) when Adam sinned, about 6000 years ago, and Adam was the first man who sinned. But if you don't understand the BIBLICAL differences between the words "world" and "earth," you cannot grasp the truth of the following points of logic and common sense:

  1. The Scriptures say that the "serpent" tempted Eve and caused her and Adam to sin.
  2. If the serpent tempted the man and woman to sin against God, then the serpent was disobedient and evil before Adam and Eve.
  3. And if the "serpent" was evil before Adam fell, then the spirit of the serpent would have had to have sinned against God at some point of time BEFORE Adam sinned. Got that?
  4. Therefore, if Death comes by sin (see Romans 6:23 and James 1:15 [an eternal rule]), and the serpent was a sinner before Adam, then Death already existed...and it existed in a "world" BEFORE Adam and Eve sinned. It was Adam's disobedience which allowed "Death" to enter the newly-formed pristine world. It was Lucifer's disobedience and rebellion which allowed "Death" to enter the original, ancient world. That is what the Bible says. If you don't get this point clear in your mind, it is not possible to understand the full Scriptural picture.

 

With this information, and the following "common sense" assumptions, one can now find out the latest at which Satan could have fallen:

- Adam and Eve had Cain and Abel shortly after their expulsion from the Garden of Eden.

- Cain and Abel had been at least 25 years old when Abel's murder took place.

- Seth had probably not been born when Abel was killed in light of Genesis 4:25 "And Adam knew his wife again; and she bare a son, and called his name Seth; For God, said she, hath appointed me another seed instead of Abel, whom Cain slew." -- Hovind

 

All of this is meaningless because the author is not facing the full spiritual realty. If Satan fell (sinned) first, then why wasn't he given credit for bringing sin upon the world of Adam and Eve? Now think about that. Adam's fall is recorded in Genesis, but Satan's is not! Did Satan get a free pass for rebelling, but God socked it to Adam and his seed for just eating from a forbidden tree (Adam's sin was also rebellion).

You do not read about Satan's fall in the Genesis narrative because he did NOT fall during this present world, as the author is so pathetically trying to prove. This is a real case of someone trying to add to God's Word.
Here are two real "common sense" assumptions:
  1. Adam may have been the first man to sin, but he was NOT the first living creature to sin.
  2. Death entered into the present world when Adam sinned, but death already existed at a point in time BEFORE Adam sinned, in a world on the face of the earth BEFORE Adam.

          --- crybaby johnson

 
Since Satan had already fallen at the time of Adam and Eve's expulsion from the Garden of Eden, we must conclude that this fall occurred within the first 105 years after day six. One unique fact from Scripture that may limit the 105 year time frame even further can be found in Genesis 4:9-17. In these verses, God is telling Cain of the punishment he is about to receive for murdering his brother Abel. Cain responds by saying, "every one that findeth me shall slay me." Who are these people that Cain is worried about? Were not Adam, Eve, Cain, and Abel the only people in existence at the time of Abel's murder? Apparently, Adam and Even had had several other children by this time. After Cain fled, the Bible records he dwelt in the land of Nod where his wife conceived a son Enoch. The older Cain was when he slew Abel, the more other brothers and sisters could have been living, and the younger Adam would have been when he and Eve were expelled from the Garden of Eden. There is no way of determining from Scripture the exact age of Cain when he slew Abel; therefore, our original estimation of a maximum 105-year time frame must be adhered to although it was probably shorter. During these 105 years, Adam and Eve were in close fellowship with God, giving Him their total worship and admiration. Satan, observing this relationship, became jealous and wanted man to worship him instead. This iniquity resulted in his fall. The Scripture-based time window for Satan's fall is illustrated on the time line below. -- Hovind
 
 
Essentially, everything written here is correct, except the underlying assumption that Satan was created (and fell) after the six days of Genesis.Satan was jealous alright because of the man and woman, but he was jealous and scheming because he had already fallen, lost the initial stewardship of the Earth, and was now being replaced in the newly regenerated world by creatures formed by God from the dust of the Earth, the dust of the very planet that he (Satan) used to have rule over. He wanted control back
 

and therefor essentially crybaby johnson is wrong and lost again
 
this site below is a crybaby atheist  site that does nothing but put down
God and calls him a liar and is filled with nothing but hatred for him.
they just dont like having thier lifestyle interupted by what is Good
this was submitted by a member of this site by an unnamed person.
like they really doing to accomplish anything but just call names and
make fun of christians
 
 
 
 
 
 
please find some time to read this message.
youtube addresses, are listed on this Atheist site.:
 
 
And all the atheists think they risk to be offended humiliated and spit
Atheist began recruiting members from various countries, and
especially on YT they are extremely well organized.
if they have the site and and forums :
 
 
in the last days the league of reason began to recruit more members
And all that movies that mention religion, spirituality or
God that need our help and support.will be on this site.

Also we going to have a list with fundamentalist atheist
that appeals to spam or troling, and should be blocked, or ignore.
Most importantly we will discuss the lies, which incite hatred and
discrimination, they assume that faith is equal, ignorance, that Christians have
brought the Middle Ages, and if they will not be defeated, will bring back the Middle Ages
 
The evidence in this movie
 
are also atheist which share the world in two science and religion,
on his site Brett Keane, suggests that a Christian patient should
not receive medical help, but should be sent home to pray
but he is an idiot.
 
 
This is not a joke, this is already a move similar to Nazism or communism.